McCleve Tile, they do it right!

This deck looks pretty good, at least when it is dry and sunny out. Wonder what it looks like when rain is in the forecast?

OK, obviously there was a waterproofing issue with this deck. Here is the story and lessons learned with this project. The home owner had purchased the home with the deck shown here, soon after a leak was discovered in the garage below. Having all ready experienced the professionalism of the guys at McCleve Tile he called on Dave for advise. Turns out Dave has been doing outdoor decks for years and understands the challenges and has the solution to properly waterproof a tile surface outdoors.

The first thing to figure out is what do we have under the tile and what caused the failure? It only takes a little while to uncover the products used and where the failure was.

I have learned that in years past the tile industry along with designers relied heavily on the thought that redundancy works best. So if the first product fails the next one will work. Although I can understand the logic it simply doesn't do anything but ad some more time before the failure. The most common root cause I have discovered is simply that the products being used are not recommend for this type application. If the manufacturer doesn't recommend the use, approve of it and fully warranty the work then don't use it.

Under the orange drainage mat they find a concrete roof with plywood attached to it. This was an attempt to get slope since the concrete roof drained back to the threshold. There are so many issues with this attempt but most concerning is that when you are using tile you should do everything you can to eliminate movement. Here what had been done added movement by using shims to elevate the plywood along the house slopping it towards the outer edge.

The leaking below was a result of water around the threshold, it had so much water around the door, under the plywood that it was ruining the Sheetrock in the garage below. You can see the huge void that was left even after the shims and plywood were installed. As a part of the redundancy used we can see that Ice and Water Shield was also installed. Tragically again it is a product that is not recommended for this type use and is not warranted.

This is a close up under the door. The OSB sheeting butts up under the door, it was so wet and rotted that you could use your finger to push a hole through it and pull it out.

It was not raining when the McCLeve Tile crew were tearing the old roof off. The water you see here was a large puddle under the plywood around the door. Not only is the Ice and Water Shield not recommended for use like this it is a bad idea to put screws through it too. In order to use the shims they were screwed into the concrete roof, never a good idea to put holes in any roof.

This is found on virtually any job. I guess it does again add some redundancy but caulk is not the best bet for waterproofing. I am not sure how many tubes were used but man there was a lot of it in there. At best caulk is a good moisture barrier but it should not be used as the primary waterproofing.

Enough of the problems. It is time for the McCleve Tile staff to get this fixed once and for all. The home owner liked the looks of tile, we all do. When Dave told him that the roof deck could be fixed properly he was interested. Once he understood about our systems (not just a product) and the fact that it is warranted it was a go. First thing was fill in that giant void under the threshold giving it plenty of support and eliminating the dead air space.

Next step was easy but significant. Get the proper slope to manage the water off the surface and also reduce the opportunity for movement. Here they have floated the existing concrete roof so that it is thicker along the house causing the water to flow away. By doing it this way they are providing a very stable surface with much less movement.

Duradek's Tiledek roofing membrane is the clear answer to this failure. Dave has the experience, a trained staff, the right materials and system. Installed right to the concrete this is not only the waterproofing it also acts as an antifracture membrane too. The bottom line here is we are bringing roofing experience and code requirements to the tile application that had never been considered before.

Rather than rely on a glued or chemical bond Duradek uses a trained installer to heat weld the two sheets together as one. They are basically melted together making the seam absolutely watertight.

The end result is not just another tile roof deck, it is one that will last for decades without the frustrations and high cost of repair from water damages.

Mattingley Tile & Marble

This tiny little deck caused some significant water damage. Why? Inadequate waterproofing was used. The damage was so bad the deck literally fell off the house. When we first saw this deck it was laying in the garden below. To often tile is thought off a waterproof, or some great barrier to water. It is not. Water will get below the tile and grout, into the thin set and that it were it can do the most damage. It is like the old saying "out of sight, out of mind."

Well while the deck looked fine the water rotted out the studs and supports. All of the stone siding was removed between the windows and re-built. The studs were so wet and rotted you could push your finger though the whole thing.
Good thing they call Ray Mattingley for advise and assistance correcting this issue. Ray knew the answer to the problem was simply to use the right system. Tiledek not only waterproofs but it is the anti fracture membrane and was designed for thin set to bond to.

The deck is built over again and here you can see they have added a 1/2 inch Durarock CBU to reduce movement.

With the CBU properly installed your ready for the Tiledek membrane to be installed.

Even though this looks like a simple little deck, the details are what take time and why you only want to use a pro like Ray. This has a radius, a threshold and the roof is within inches on both sides. It does look easy but even so this little deck was several hours of time just working the details

Good job Ray! Now you only have seven more like this one and then the big deck on the back of the house too.

I had a chance to stop by and see Ray and the progess they were making. Here they are instlling the Tiledek waterproof membrane to the larger deck and that did go a little quicker. there was a lot more tile to be used too.

Turned out beautiful and without a doubt the home owner's water issues are gone.

Elite Custom Exteriors

When it comes to elevating your exterior into a beautiful entertainment area these are the guys to call. This customer had the same problems that are way to frequent in our area, water damage has caused major repairs. The owner was clear, "fix this with the right stuff so I don't have to go through this again!"

Tile outdoors is a wonderful way to make the neighbors envious, but it needs to be done right or it will be very costly.

The great thing about the Elite Custom Exterior company is they also have a flooring division within the company so all of the work is single sourced. By doing this the customer not only receives a higher standard of service but a packaged price for the work.

This job had some pretty serious water damages that required additional supports, joists and removal of a large part of the surrounding wall. There was no doubt about what products would solve this problem and with a few additional drains the water will be moved off the surface quickly.

But "they" said it was waterproof

It wasn't raining, this was trapped in the deck.

Times are tough, I understand being thrifty and looking for the best deals out there. When it comes to waterproofing your decks and patio's or any horizontal surface my thought is be cost effective and thrifty. Here are some examples from Park City, an area that is suffereing serious water related issues from a combination of product choice and poor installation.

Solid surface decking is a great choice, why not make the most of the space you have outside. It can be an outstanding place to entertain your friends and family. I think in many cases the home owner's decison on products has been based on the finished look as much as cost.

This deck was over a garage and there are at least three different products that we found. so many in fact that we were conserned about the weight. It appears that the original attempt was to have an exposed aggrigate or "pebble" style finish on the deck. It failed and it was no wonder, where was the waterproofing? The second attempt was another dose of the same type design. Can you believe it failed too! The reason why? No waterproofing. As the old layers were being torn away I noticed water leaking out the garage below and running down the driveway. The home owner originally called because there was water leaking into the garage so it made sence.


The visible water leaking into the garage is what raised a flag. In truth this had been going on a very long time. The multiple layers had not stopped the water from leaking through, it was trapping it below and that was rotting the substrate. Here you can see how wet the wood was, it was actually puddling during the tearoff. The water was leaking out the door below and onto the deck becasue there was nothing to hold it any longer.

The failed product was coming up in large chuncks and this is what was below. This was directly above the water leaking out the garage to the diveway. As they tore off the old it was allowing more water to flow through the holes.

It was fortunate for the home owner that they had so many layers on the deck, somebody could have been seriously hurt falling throught here.

In our experience the details is where waterproofing gets difficult. Here there simply is no excuse for what was done. In each application of product all they did was go up to the edge of the wooden post and stop. Anyone can see that water will get into the shrinkage cracks, this will leak below and casue the wood to expand as well.

One of the layers was a liquid applied membrane. Not sure how you can get a liquid to go up a column and stay but only butting it up to it obviously doesn't work either.



Finally to the bottom layer. Although the wood had not rotted yet you can see the rust from a layer of metal that was used, probably to help reduce movement. All it did was rust from the amount of moisture seeping in.

MBL, they take it from leaking to WOW

Great project, see article below.

This beautiful home and two outstanding decks are made for outdoor entertaining. The only problem is the seemingly endless expense of repair. The home owner was clear they are tired of being told "stories" from contractors and having to pay and pay. As we began discussing the Duradek options they quickly went from a classy design to the Tiledek membrane. I would have to agree for as nice a view and the amount they entertaining they do; Tiledek was an excellent choice.
The lower level is over living space and had suffered some leaking and water damages. Over head is the upper deck, basically the roof of the lower deck and it too had a small area over living space.

There was a liquid applied coating of some type applied over a plywood substrate that had failed once and when called the installation company charged them more money to add another coat to "fix" the problem. Not long after the problem was back and the leaking continued. Why? that is what the home owner didn't understand. Why did it happen and why would somebody make all the promises etc about the product? Part of this falls on the home owner to actually investigate the product and get the history, warranty, experience, training.

It doesn't take much to look up a products approvals if they have any or simply tell the installation company you want to see the ICC approvals before they do anything. Make sure that they meet building code and if not sure call the local building inspector for assistance. This is a good example of being sold a poor product that does not have the proper approvals for a deck over living space. With just a minutes time a layman can see that coatings in general are allowed to retain up to 15% moisture, so how can that be considered waterproof? It's just smoke and mirrors, creative marketing.

For this job a couple of bids from Duradek trained installers had inspected the decks and each submitted a formal bid. MBL of Kaysville, UT was awarded the job. First thing was to determine what kind of water damages had been done under the coating, It looked good above while the significant damage was happening below. While tearing up the damaged substrate they came upon the cause of the ponding water on the deck too. The deck surface had been designed with plenty of slope but there was a problem between trades during the build. The brick siding was actually higher than the substrate itself. here is where somebody should have addressed the issue but didn't. Rather then correcting the problem they simply added another sheet of 1/2 plywood to the already installed 3/4inch, closer but still lower than the brick. Ultimately what was done was the substrate was laying on top of the brick causing a reverse slope and that is why the water would pond around the outer edge. Once this was found the only way to properly correct the problem was to tear off the old substrate and re sheet it with new plywood. The joist's had 1/4 in 12" slope all ready on them but still lower than the brick, a 2x2 was glued and screwed to the joist providing proper height over the brick and excellent slope

With the new plywood down the next step was to use Mapei's Ultaflex 2 as a bond coat and Durarock cement board screwed down. One of the concerns when considering using tile or stone outdoors is movement and this step aids greatly in reducing any movement and thus problems with the tiles popping or cracking. Durarock (like all the other product used) approves of their cement board being used in this application. This is significant because it eliminates the optional finger pointing and "blaming" of wrong products used thus causing the failure.

Mapei's Ultra Flex 2 was used as a bond coat for the CBU as well as being screwed down.For the outer edge Duradek's PVC coating drip edge was installed allowing the Tiledek membrane to be welded to it providing a water tight finish.
Tiledek 60 mil membrane meets or exceeds a multitude of needs on this job, we bring roofing standards and practices to the tile industry. The TCNA (Tile Council of North America) calls out for a roofing membrane to be used when using tile over living space but stops short of specifying a thickness. Yet when roofing 60 mil is required over living space, so why the gap?



Once the Tiledek membrane is fully adhered it is ready for tile. Here the deck was large enough that the tile setters where already installing the tile while the membrane was getting the finishing details. Mapei's Granirapid thinset was used for setting the tile.

Imagine the delight of sitting on your new beautiful tile deck with your friends and family, barbecuing, relaxing and taking in the view.

Outdoor living, not just a deck

Outdoor living space adds value to your home!
So many of us have decks, flat roofs, balconies and porches that are done like everyone else in the valley. For years a wood plank deck was the thing to do, mainly because it is the least expensive. Soon the excitement of the new deck turns into a annual maintenance and repair headache. The resulting costs and time can be frustrating and replacement is inevitable.
What's the next best thing? You can get the same general appearance of a wood deck by using composite materials. These are easy to come by from name brands or even the local Home Depot and Lowe's for the do it yourself-er. The problem is the same but you have bought some time: the wood supports and trusses are rotting. True the composite materials are waterproof and they will not rot. They will fade, can splinter, stain or discolor and water will leak through them just like the old deck. Again to by some time pressure treated wood can be used or required and the chemicals that are used will add a little time. While those chemicals are being washed into the ground over the years they to will begin to rot and need to be replaced.
Both of these and others may be the "popular" thing but what do they do for the resale value of your home? Do you look at the decks, flat roofs, balconies and patios that are in need of repair as investments for your home? Will the products you choose add value to your home?
Just for a minute think of these areas as outdoor living space, not much different than your living room or family room. Would like to have an area that can provide you with the opportunity to entertain and relax while taking advantage of our awesome Utah views? With the more than twenty Duradek colors and designs any outdoor area can be converted to a long lasting, low maintenance entertaining area. Unlike the previous decks this meets code as a roofing membrane so go ahead and take advantage of the space underneath. Storage? Now you have the space. Place for the hot tub so you don't get cold water dripping on you? Perfect. Get all the stuff out of the garage so you can use it for the car. Great idea. This is where your investment begins to pay off. Now the area underneath become usable space, completely dry and ready for you to take advantage of however you like. By using this process you have made excellent use of your time and money so have some friends and family over and entertain them in your new outdoor living area. While they are wowed with the changes you made you can relax knowing that your annual maintenance will be a with a hose washing of the deck. Don't worry about the snow and freeze thaw; rock salt, ice melt, shovel it, no problem.
Now you are thinking about the cost of something like this. It's OK we think about it too. The old fashion wood deck would be the least expensive and you can do it yourself. The composite materials are more expensive and again if you think your up to it you can do it yourself. The same area done with a membrane which offers you so much more has a material cost that would be less than the do it yourself composite choice! BUT, this is not a do it yourself project. Only professional company trained installers are used. You are no longer simply building a deck area you are investing in your home, most will agree this is not the time to try and cut the initial amount you spend. Doing it the right way the first time will provide you with well over a decade of use and you are saving the annual repair and maintenance cost of wood decks.When was the last time you walked outside sat down and relaxed with no deck worries?