Does Tiledek really work?

In talking with customers and businesses in the tile industry there is a very obvious need for a proven well developed product for the tile industry to embrace the use of tile in an outdoor applications. Rather than trying to make a tile setter a waterproofing expert (which I have yet to find) why not take a waterproofing expert and have them install a product that not only waterproofs but also readies the project for tile? What tile setter wouldn't love to walk onto the job ready to lay tile? I have learned that in the past years it was the tile setter walking onto to job wondering how they would keep water out.

Sure there are sceptics out there because nothing they or the other contractors they know has come up with a product that works. That is part of the problem, it is not a product that is needed. The solution is a system. A tested, approved system that includes all the materials and components that are used. Each of those components has the manufacturers approvals for it use in the system. Without the proper approvals and a professional installation you may as well start saving for the repair cost and good luck getting somebody to warranty the work.

What I struggle with is the decision to use a tile that costs $5000 then to save a couple dollars by using unproven less expensive ideas on how to protect the tile and the home?

These pictures are of Tiledek installed following the instructions with a couple steps left out. We have purposely introduced water and ice into play. Though a finished project would never be subjected to this kind of treatment we thought we would do it just for kicks. This is why we are so confident we have the correct system to eliminate the past frustrations and extreme cost associated with outdoor tile.

This is a small trapped deck that we made and it is lined with Tiledek. Water was added, to the top of the tile, about a half inch or so. It is left outside the shop and freezes over night. Each morning we bring it inside and place it under a heat lamp to greatly speed up the freeze thaw process. Here is a sample of what happens -

10:10am 26 degrees Solid ice

10:20 40 degrees Ice on top of tiles melted as well as the area closest to the lamp

10:30 48 degrees 1/2 of ice melted and the tile itself is warm to the touch

10:55 60 degrees Ice melted and back to water, back outside it goes.

Tiledek Freeeze Thaw issues solved!

Everyone likes the look of tile and stone but for years it has been frowned upon in our area, a result of the climate we experience. Anyone that has tried can tell stories of the costly errors and repairs. Duradek, North America's largest maufacturer of a walkable roofing membrane has developed the solution along with some of the tile industries largest companies.

Known for years as the solution for walking decks over living space Duradek has taken their decades of experience in the roofing industry and applied it to a solution for tile and stone. Now you can have the ellegant look and not be concerned about the repair or damages of the past. So how does it work? It is a simple system that has been tested not only through the TCNA and TTMAC but here in Utah, some of the harshest climate changes in the USA. There are so many so called products out there and to be honest until now it was often left up to a contractor to deciede what to do. Sorry to say that was often a combination of several layers and or products assuming that more is better. Duradek's Tiledek is the whole package, it is the roofing membrane that the tile industry call s out in their instructions (often called waterproofing) it is also the flashing running up the walls and thresholds. Thinset will bond to not just your tile but to the mebrane itself and yes it has been installed on decks around the Salt Lake Valley for three years now. The work has been both over living space and a simple exterior deck exposed to the cold winter climate. The number of customer complaints? Zero

How can our confidence and our customer stasfaction be so high? It's like poker, what gets you in the game? Ante up. Being licensed, insured, nice emplyee's and things like that are just the ante, it allows you to get in the game. Real hands on training and support is what makes the contractors we work with a cut above. They have been through a company provided training course and are provided a path for on going continuing education. Since we are local we often are on the job sites ensuring our standards are being followed but most important we are answering questions and continuing the support. It can be easier to demonstate a skill in a classroom environment it is different on the job and on the job is not the way to learn how to waterproof.

When your design includes tile work the cost will be much higher. Would you want to have somebody that can talk the talk working on it or a company that walks the walk day in and day out?

Is there such a thing as a twenty year deck in Utah?

Without a doubt and full of confidence and history, YES.

We have some of the harshest climate changes in the country and to find a product that will withstand not just the rain but the snow and ice build up would be like a slice of pumpkin pie on Thanksgiving. Would you like whipped cream with your pie?

The Duradek membrane has been around for over 37 years now and has it's roots based in British Columbia. Salt Lake City is very similar in elevation and climate, the big difference is precipitation. Where we get about 16.5 inches a year, Vancouver BC averages 43.98.

So, if you truly want to have a relaxing, long lasting and low maintenance deck you have found the right product. From a beautiful vinyl surface, available in more than twenty designs/ colors to the extravagant look of tile or stone; We have you covered.

Want to learn more? OK lets walk through the two membranes briefly and illustrate what is so different and what gives it the decades of use.

Duradek - A fairly simple single ply installation over plywood, not OSB. The difference is simple, OSB will delaminate with a whiff of moisture in the air. Plywood is much more durable and since the membrane is being fully adhered to the substrate lets do it right the first time. Think of it as a solid surface, outdoor flooring application. You can have a deck with the clock ticking away until you repair it or you can have a usable outdoor living space that compliments your home.

Like with most things in life, It's all in the Details.

The strength of the membrane is not just the fact that it already has all of the UV inhibitors, plasticizers, mold and mildew inhibitors to assist its long life. It is only installed by company trained professionals. When you are looking for a waterproof product and expect to get decades of use out of it stay away from the handyman services and the DYI products. The issue isn't the product. It is not to difficult to glue down; it's having the knowledge and the skills to handle the details correctly.

Water finds it's way in to the most difficult places with ease when the installer lacks experience. Eliminating risk by using the correct detail installation is the name of the game. Here you can see the membrane is being wrapped over the edge of the deck surface. There is a drip edge under it in this picture and the membrane will be glued to the drip edge and finished of with a vinyl clip that compliments the color of the deck membrane. If the membrane was just stopped at the edge of the surface like a coating would be then the water will likely find it's way into the fascia or substrate and the clock starts ticking.

Your home is wrapped with a moisture barrier, this is the "paper" that goes on over the wood the siding then goes over the top of the "paper". The reason for this is to protect moisture from getting to the wood surface. The moisture can be liquid, solid or vapor such as condensation. When there is a moisture build up then there needs to be a way to remove it, here you see the membrane goes up the wall a minimum of 6 inches (building code) then the moisture barrier will over lap it from above allowing water to be moved away from the home.

A similar detail is the outside corner, still goes up the wall and protects not just the surface but the entire area. Anyone that has experience in deck repair will tell you the risk isn't in the field, it is how the details are done. I have often wondered how you can use a liquid material like a coating to go up a wall?

Tired of playing games and spending money on your deck year after year? This is a product that is done once and will last for decades even in the snow and ice we experience. I like to BBQ year round but in the winter it can be frustrating and a mess. With the Duradek membrane you simply shovel off the snow or if you prefer use Ice Melt or Rock Salt to get rid of it. Isn't it time you used your deck for what it is intended for? With Duradek you can sit back relax and enjoy yourself knowing we've got you covered.

It's crunch time

The phone lines get busy each year about now. As soon as the temperature starts to drop people start thinking about getting work done around the house. It is a good idea to get some repairs done before the rain and snow becomes the norm. It is also a good idea to be aware of the products your considering, as an example -

Coatings are pretty popular and some do a good job for walkways and garages but there is a very slim window to install them here in Utah. Many of these coatings are water based and virtually all of them have required temperature ranges that must be followed during installations. The importance of the temperature is not the time of the day it is being used, it is the entire period during the curing process, these typically are a 24 hour period. So, here in Utah the "window" to do any of these installations would be June to August, historically our low temperatures fall below 50 degrees.

Want to find out if your installer is doing the right thing? Ask them for the installation instructions so you can follow along. Be careful though, some products are readily available but there is nobody training and providing support for the contractors doing the work. There is a tremendous amount of information available on the Internet and a little effort will provide plenty of data. Look for things like "installation procedures" and "manufacturer's specifications"
Do these two reports have the same information in them?
Are there steps in the installation procedures that vary or are simply missing when compared to the manufacturer's specifications?

What are the re coating requirements? Yes that's right requirements. Again the manufacture of these products knows that in order for them to offer a warranty etc they need to be maintained. If there is a failure and the area was not re coated timely there could be some finger pointing.

Check the contractors labor warranty. They are required to warranty their work for at least one year but you will find that the quality of the products they use have a lot to do with the time frame they will offer.

Investigate, investigate, investigate. Then relax and enjoy!

Finished pictures of the BSU Student Union Roof Top, soon to become a garden for the students to grow vegetables. This pictures correspond to the post of July 12, 2010 "BSU Roof Top Garden" here you can see the completed project but if you read the orifinal article you will better understand the detailed work that was done by Upson Company in order to resolve a leaking roof isssue as well as allow it to become a garden for use by the students.






This wall had been of brick, the Duradek membrane is able to form a tight 90 degree at the base and run right up the wall. Provides a real nice look but more important is the confidence of a water tight roof.

The transisiton along the building is similar, the membrane runs up the wall about 8 inches and into a riglet. Flashing was then instlled over that for added insurance and a clean look.

Here what is significant is the addition of floor drains located near the old scuppers. You always want to have a secondary drainage system in case of a clog etc. It is difficult to see in this picture but the scupper runs through the wall out to the main roof.

The same flashing was used to give a clean yet eligant look.

These portable planter boxes will soon be filled with vegetables.

The doors had been flush with the old roof. Here they have been elevated and properly waterproofed.

COST more important than PRICE

We have been through this so many times but for many customers it is the catalyst to making a purchase so we visit it again.

When you are talking about something as serious as roofing and waterproofing you should do a little homework yourself and investigate the product(s) and the contractor you are using. Yes trust them, to answer your questions clearly and in a manner that you understand and don't be afraid to ask the tough questions. Does this come with a warranty? What are the exclusions? What is the history of this product in this area? What is your labor warranty? When you think you have found something that is too good to be true it almost always is. Rather than just turning a blind eye and thinking you got a steal we recommend you take a minute and investigate, it could save you in the long run or confirm that you are getting a great deal.

There are some significant changes pending when it comes to approvals and a products approved uses. These changes are a direct result of the numerous failures and issues related to installation and durability. I understand that it can take years for these changes to become know to the contractors and building community in general. Yet, they can be found easily with a few minutes on the Internet. Simply go to the agency that is there to protect you - http://www.icc-es.org/reports/index.cfm You can do the research or demand that the contractor provide it for you, then take a minute and read it and it will tell you all about the product and what it can be used for.

Why do we ask you to take the time to learn these things? Often when one of our dealers is meeting with a client the topic is a result of a failed product and the resulting damage. When you have water damage especially over a living area the cost can be very high. Imagine your roof deck leaking into your dining area or living room. Tear out and replace the sheet rock, paint, could be removal of carpeting etc, the list just goes on. That is the first thing the owner fixes since it is in the home, the odor alone makes you want to hurry up and fix it. Then after the money has been spent to get the inside damages fixed it is time to fix the problem, once and for all. Now is not the time to look for the least expensive product on the market. After all had the right product been used you would not have just spent $$$$ fixing the damages.

Another example is not listening to those that have the knowledge and experience, rather a less expensive option is available so you "cheap out" and you think you save a couple hundred dollars. A customer has a tiled deck that is over living space, the dining room is right below the deck. When the tile was originally installed they did not use the proper system and it failed allowing water to get into the dining area. The home owner wants to replace the tile on the deck but is clear they want no more water issues! Duradek's Tiledek membrane is investigated and chosen for the work. We meet several times and talked about the project with the owner, his general contractor and the dealer (contractor) installing the membrane. Installation goes well and the work looks great, then there is a problem. About six months after the work was completed we get a call about a meeting at the home and all the sub contractors that worked on the project are going to be there. Everyone shows up and we are shown the water damages along the outside of the home. Immediately the membrane is thought to have failed. I can understand the jumping to conclusion, after all it was an expensive to repair all the damages.

Bottom line was the failure did not come from the membrane, it was failure to listen to our strong advise and poor installation of the railing. We had told the owner and the general contractor that we very strongly recommend fascia mounting the railing rather then using the same vinyl railing that was taken off. The dealer also asked that the stairs up to the deck be pulled off so they could waterproof the upper area properly. In both cases the owner was advised by the general contractor that they could both simply stay the way they were. The railing was re-installed on the surface by the general contractor with the old surface mounted posts, drilling through the tile. The Duradek detail for rail installation was provided to them yet they failed to follow them and the hole they drilled was allowing water in. Second the stair's had not been waterproofed properly and as a result the exterior was showing the signs of damages.

This could have been avoided by simply doing it right the first time. The home owner was upset that after spending $20, 000 to repair his failures, then a similar problem happens. What I find so frustrating about things like this are -
The general contractor he used was not a general contractor, he is a handyman. There is a big difference and it cost them.
When an expert in a field strongly suggests not doing something there is a good reason, check it out. One call to anyone that does tile and they would confirm you should not surface mount rail on tile.

Waterproofing, do it right the first time and remember it's all in the details!

BSU Roof Top Garden

Boise State University Student Union Building has begun making some beautiful changes. The roof itself has had some water problems and they were exploring the idea of how to combine fixing the roof leaks with making a roof top garden that they could use to grow vegetables for use in the cafeteria.

With the help of Upson Company in Caldwell, they were able to fix the leaking roof and have beautiful area for the gardens.

With this project Upson Company had some interesting but all to common issues. Initially the roof top was concrete with an expose aggregate surface, over time water had leaked through the aggregate and concrete. Coatings can be associated with or confused as a roofing product, they are only classified as, and some carry ICC approvals but only as traffic coatings. Here are some pictures of the resulting problems with the coatings used. The first one used (it appears there were two different ones used over time) was a combination of sand and a urethane type coating. The aggregate was a very uneven and rough surface and when it was torn up you can see where some areas simply did not adhere.

With both coatings the roof had become very thick and even though the two different coatings were bonded very well together the leaks soon continued. In some areas there were soft spots that you could feel with your feet, the bond had separated from the aggregate completely. At first glance it was difficult to determine how these coatings had failed. Perhaps it was the simple fact that it was a walking roof, there were pressures and weight being applied that exceeded the coatings capabilities.

This is a good example why you use trained, experienced, professionals. As you see here the coatings were completly removed down to the aggregate surface. Next step was to smooth out the aggregate so the membrane would have a good suraface to adhere to. Another consideration was the fact that this was to be a walking roof and appearance would be an important consideration as well. A smooth surface would also accomidate a visual change from a roof to a floor. This was important given the amount of traffic the new roof deck garden would be, this will become a focal point.

The sides had been brick with a few scuppers along the length. It looked like the scusppers were anywhere from level to a reverse slope and did little to drain the water off the roof. Again the guys at Upson Company had the right solutions. Remove the exisiting scuppers and fab new ones that would assist in the proper water management. Add three additional floor drains, these would be the primary drainage system and the scuppers would be the secondary. It is a good practice to always have a secondary drainage system as a back up. Here you can also see the walls were covered with plywood during the preperations and would be covered with Duradek

Not quite finished here, some trim will be added to the walls and around the doors but you can see the transformation form roof to floor looks good.

The planter boxes have been made and are sitting downstairs ready to be put into use. I can't wait to see the finished project and get some feedback from the unniversity.